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We’ve been exploring the concept of using open auction to manage advertising on some Stack Exchange sites. Under this model, advertisers (who have been organized into categories based on their products) “bid” for an advertising spot. There is a floor price - a minimum price for the spot, and all bids must exceed that floor price. At this time, only the Mathematics Stack Exchange site (currently in a small-scale test) uses the open auction model.

Advertisers have expressed interest in advertising to sites outside of the technology Stack Exchange sites. These sites have been largely devoid of advertising (although the sites have been eligible for advertising). This initiative aims to help us better understand potential new revenue opportunities and possibly refine our ad strategy in the future while delivering relevant ads to users of this site.

Mathematics experiment success

We began an open auction experiment on the Mathematics site on October 1, 2024. Since then, we’ve seen bids from over 200 advertisers, delivered over 36,000 ad impressions, and saw a 400% relative lift in click-through rate, which demonstrates engagement from the Mathematics community and confirms the relevance of the ads being delivered to Mathematics in the month of October. Tight category controls have also resulted in no ads reported by community members via the “Report this ad” function.

The experiment on Mathematics currently has three “Allowed Advertiser” Categories, which are Education & Training, Computers and Consumer Electronics, and Finance.

Phased approach for rolling out to more sites

Phase 1 sites

With the success of the open auction experiment on Mathematics, we’d like to scale the experiment to more sites in a phased approach. The first phase of sites we will release the open auction experiment to are the sites listed below.? We will launch this phase of the experiment on November 13, 2024.

Site Name URL Announcement Post
Anime & Manga anime.stackexchange.com link
Ebooks ebooks.stackexchange.com link
English Language & Usage english.stackexchange.com link
Literature literature.stackexchange.com link
Astronomy astronomy.stackexchange.com link
Biology biology.stackexchange.com link
Chemistry chemistry.stackexchange.com link
Cryptography crypto.stackexchange.com link
Earth Science earthscience.stackexchange.com link
Geographic Information Systems gis.stackexchange.com link
History of Science and Mathematics hsm.stackexchange.com link
Mathematica mathematica.stackexchange.com link
Medical Sciences medicalsciences.stackexchange.com link
Physics physics.stackexchange.com link
Psychology & Neuroscience psychology.stackexchange.com link
Space Exploration space.stackexchange.com link

The “Allowed Advertiser” Categories for the sites above include Education & Training; Computers & Consumer Electronics; News, Books & Publications; Scientific Equipment & Services.

Note - the Allowed Advertiser Categories might change over time based on the results after each phased launch and associated sites.

Phase 2 sites

Phase 2 sites will launch on December 3, 2024.

Site Name URL Announcement Post
Amateur Radio ham.stackexchange.com link
Board & Card Games boardgames.stackexchange.com link
Bricks bricks.stackexchange.com link
Chess chess.stackexchange.com link
Constructed Languages conlang.stackexchange.com url-ligo
Genealogy & Family History** genealogy.stackexchange.com link
History history.stackexchange.com link
Lifehacks lifehacks.stackexchange.com link
Mythology & Folklore mythology.stackexchange.com link
Philosophy philosophy.stackexchange.com link
Photography photo.stackexchange.com link
Poker poker.stackexchange.com link
Puzzling puzzling.stackexchange.com link
Role-playing Games rpg.stackexchange.com link
Science Fiction & Fantasy** scifi.stackexchange.com link
Sound Design sound.stackexchange.com link
The Great Outdoors outdoors.stackexchange.com link
Video Production video.stackexchange.com link
Woodworking woodworking.stackexchange.com link
Worldbuilding worldbuilding.stackexchange.com link
Writing writing.stackexchange.com link
Gardening & Landscaping gardening.stackexchange.com link
Home Improvement diy.stackexchange.com link
Movies & TV movies.stackexchange.com link
Music Fans musicfans.stackexchange.com link
Music: Practice & Theory music.stackexchange.com link
Pets pets.stackexchange.com link
Bicycles bicycles.stackexchange.com link
Martial Arts martialarts.stackexchange.com link
Sports sports.stackexchange.com link
Expatriates expatriates.stackexchange.com link
Travel travel.stackexchange.com link
GenAI genai.stackexchange.com link
Cross Validated stats.stackexchange.com link

Phase 3 sites

Phase 3 sites will launch on January 13, 2025.

Site Name URL
Motor Vehicle Maintenance & Repair mechanics.stackexchange.com
Arqade gaming.stackexchange.com
Academia academia.stackexchange.com
Ask Patents patents.stackexchange.com
Aviation aviation.stackexchange.com
Bioinformatics bioinformatics.stackexchange.com
Economics economics.stackexchange.com
Electrical Engineering electronics.stackexchange.com
Engineering engineering.stackexchange.com
Mathematics Educators matheducators.stackexchange.com
Project Management pm.stackexchange.com
Quantitative Finance quant.stackexchange.com
Salesforce salesforce.stackexchange.com
Freelancing freelancing.stackexchange.com
The Workplace workplace.stackexchange.com
Interpersonal Skills interpersonal.stackexchange.com
Parenting parenting.stackexchange.com
Law law.stackexchange.com
Politics politics.stackexchange.com
Personal Finance & Money money.stackexchange.com
Beer, Wine & Spirits alcohol.stackexchange.com
Coffee coffee.stackexchange.com
Homebrewing homebrew.stackexchange.com
Seasoned Advice cooking.stackexchange.com
Physical Fitness fitness.stackexchange.com
Sustainable Living sustainability.stackexchange.com
English Language Learners ell.stackexchange.com
Chinese Language chinese.stackexchange.com
Esperanto Language esperanto.stackexchange.com
French Language french.stackexchange.com
German Language german.stackexchange.com
Italian Language italian.stackexchange.com
Japanese Language japanese.stackexchange.com
Korean Language korean.stackexchange.com
Language Learning languagelearning.stackexchange.com
Latin Language latin.stackexchange.com
Linguistics linguistics.stackexchange.com
Portuguese Language portuguese.stackexchange.com
Skeptics skeptics.stackexchange.com
Spanish Language spanish.stackexchange.com
Russian Language russian.stackexchange.com
Ukrainian Language ukrainian.stackexchange.com
Biblical Hermeneutics hermeneutics.stackexchange.com
Buddhism buddhism.stackexchange.com
Christianity christianity.stackexchange.com
Hinduism hinduism.stackexchange.com
Islam islam.stackexchange.com
Mi Yodeya judaism.stackexchange.com

Strict controls and precautions

We’ve set strict floor price controls to manage the number and quality of ads that get served on each site, and we have an extensively vetted block list to prevent bids that are not relevant to users of our network sites. If we notice bids from advertisers that are technically allowed but may not be the best fit for each site, we can add those advertisers to the block list. These blocks allow us to keep the ads relevant for this site. If you see an ad that you feel doesn't fit on the site, please report it by clicking the “Report this ad” option underneath the ad.

This experiment will involve no new ad placements - only the existing ones will be utilized (represented in the image below). You can view our Advertising Guidelines here. There should not be any offensive or sensitive ads, as the filters should block them from being approved. If you notice that particular ads are less relevant or violate our advertising standards, please report them.

Open auction ads are compliant with our privacy policy. We give you control over your personal information, presenting you with a choice of whether to accept cookies that will allow your personal information to be used for targeted advertising. As always, you can review and update your cookie preferences by scrolling to the bottom of any webpage and clicking “Cookie Settings.”

A screenshot of a typical Q and A page with lines delineating the areas used for advertisements.

What’s next?

Each impacted community will get a notice from the Community Management team, in addition to this broader MSE post. After the first phase of sites have had the open auction experiment live for one month, we will evaluate the results and decide whether to conclude the test or graduate the open auction experiment, which would keep it running on each site. We will keep this post updated regarding graduating the experiment and/or what sites may be included in the next phase if we see success (impacted sites will also get a notice if they are included in the next phase). The experiment could be paused or concluded early if major issues arise.

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  • 186
    We might not like it, but selling screen space to advertisers is a much better way for SE Inc to make money (which it has to do somehow) than selling our data to data brokers and people training LLMs on it. So ... yay? Commented Nov 7, 2024 at 17:49
  • 6
    Carrot, just wondering, any reason those 16 sites were chosen in particular?
    – Starship
    Commented Nov 7, 2024 at 17:52
  • 10
    @Starship, we're rolling this out with sites grouped into families based on similar advertising category groups. These happened to share many of the same categories.
    – Philippe StaffMod
    Commented Nov 7, 2024 at 17:53
  • 19
    Ads on Medical Sciences shouldn't be allowed; it would be like SE is taking candy from a baby (advertisers are unlikely to get anything from it.) Commented Nov 7, 2024 at 18:17
  • 40
    @Randal'Thor I mean, IF they post an official announcement that they will stop the AI pursuit, I'll be glad to whitelist some ads, provided that they are 1) relevant to the site, 2) from reputable sources, 3) with no third parties proxies like google&friends involved in the hosting. Simply put, if for example SE wants to self-host an AmiAmi ads on Anime.Se, I won't be against it. Commented Nov 7, 2024 at 18:45
  • 17
    That said, since they thought it was safe to dare the "anime ads" route, I am also betting on how long it will take before we get not-so-appropriate items listing. Commented Nov 7, 2024 at 18:53
  • 47
    Does everyone even get report ad buttons? I just received an ad on math.stachexchange.com that doesn't have one. (it was an ad for a company pretending to be paypal offering dev services... what that has to do with math is beyond me)
    – Kevin B
    Commented Nov 7, 2024 at 19:19
  • 25
    @Randal'Thor They're going to sell our data as well. What on Earth makes you think they won't? Commented Nov 7, 2024 at 20:08
  • 13
    @StephenG-HelpUkraine They functionally already are. Google ads and analytics were already being used on the site. It's not like this change is the first time Google ads are being used on the site - it's just a minor change to how exactly those ads are selected. I'd be more concerned about the ad selection and increased risk of scummy ads than I would be about privacy - because again, nothing has changed. Without an ad blocker, your data is already being collected by at least Google and a bunch of other companies with tracking cookies Commented Nov 7, 2024 at 21:31
  • 34
    And here's me thinking that the mods would get at least a heads up about this according to the mod agreement. Apparently not. Commented Nov 7, 2024 at 23:21
  • 13
    @MaartenBodewes - This doesn't qualify as a policy change, so there's no requirement for mods to be given advance notice, and I wouldn't consider this a major change to the site features either. As such there's no hard requirement for advance notice, but I'll note that I'd consider a MSE post satisfactory for the purpose of informing mods when required - moderators are the minimum requirement in cases where it's required, but there's certainly no reason that a broader announcement wouldn't count for that purpose as well.
    – Mithical
    Commented Nov 8, 2024 at 13:01
  • 12
    When I see posts about increasing advertising, it makes me wonder if there will be any changes to the Reduce Ads privilege. Can you confirm that these changes only impact how advertisers buy space, but not where & to whom ads are displayed?
    – AMtwo
    Commented Nov 8, 2024 at 17:14
  • 16
    @Philippe -- I've noticed that when I ask a question in the comments to an announcement, I NEVER get a response, even if my question-comment is highly upvotred. Am I asking in the wrong spot? Do I need to be posting my questions as an "answer" or separate post on Meta? I have always been under the impression that comments are the right spot to ask for clarification, but that obviously isn't working. As this point, my assumption is that I am either asking in the wrong spot, or I am being blatantly ignored.
    – AMtwo
    Commented Nov 13, 2024 at 16:51
  • 6
    @AMtwo I think this is a more general problem in that it is unclear whether and when staff will read comments, whether and when staff will read answer responses, and whether they will reply to either whether they've read them or not. At different times I've both gotten the impression that it was rude to assume that something wasn't read just because it didn't get a reply, and also that it was rude to assume that a comment or answer to an announcement was read because there are too many of them. Commented Nov 13, 2024 at 22:08
  • 9
    What does the ** mean after Genealogy & Family History and Science Fiction & Fantasy? Side note: it looks like your profile photo from your MSE profile isn't showing on Science Fiction & Fantasy.
    – cocomac
    Commented Nov 26, 2024 at 1:38

19 Answers 19

104

Online advertising providers were and still are basically an unethical scam, a vexatious practice that offloads all the responsibility for any potential questionable actions from those selling the ads space to third party companies specialized in evading customers rights and legal consequences.

That is to say that, given that the network consists mostly of SO and SO users generally being tech-savvy, I expect that the majority of said userbase will be VERY wary around any form of third-party advertising.

I fear that the only hope the company has to realistically persuade its users to whitelist the site, is doing something quite rare nowadays and self-host the ads, thus taking full responsibility for their content.

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  • 48
    I wonder what percentage of users on SO install an ad-blocker as a reflex? I personally don't know why anyone browses the internet without turning off ads, except out of ignorance. Commented Nov 9, 2024 at 4:40
  • 7
    You have been a fervent, articulate, and evidence-based critic of Stack Exchange for some time now, what would be your idea for the company to make a profit that would exclude advertisements? Commented Nov 10, 2024 at 9:04
  • 11
    They could knock off the stupid stuff and ask for donations. They could even self-host ads.
    – SamB
    Commented Nov 10, 2024 at 19:40
  • 16
    @Mari-LouAСлаваУкра?н? As SamB sugged, I think that the old company from Jeff age would have no issue to raise some funds thru a donation campaign, Wikipedia style. That said, in this contest the issue isn't even the ads by themselves, those would be tolerable to a degree- I would be fine with Microsoft Azure / Amazon AWS ads on SO for example. The real issue is the intermediary ads provider. I know companies think it is not realistically feasible to self host ads, but at the same time it is not realistic to expect the user to blindly trust unethical providers. Commented Nov 11, 2024 at 8:58
  • 19
    @samb the company’s expenses are something like $100M a year. Obviously the site should have been non-profit from the beginning, but there’s no path from where it is today to being donation-funded, and it’s disingenuous and unhelpful to act like that’s a real alternative.
    – user1114
    Commented Nov 12, 2024 at 3:58
  • @?PArcheon I'm not very familiar with these aspects of the ads business - is there any reason to think that this "auction" system is somehow worse in terms of online ad providers than how ads were previously being served on these sites? That is, does this post relate to the overall state of advertising here or to something about this test specifically? Commented Nov 13, 2024 at 22:12
  • 5
    @BryanKrause IMHO the standard approach to ads most sites use nowadays is vexatious to the user and can only exist because of the inadequacy of the current laws framework. Companies are just able to offload their responsibility for whatever scam will be presented on THEIR site to the "ads provider", which in turn doesn't really take any responsibility for inappropriate or even malevolent content on their platform either. This is why most users nowadays install an ads blocker. Ask yourself, did anyone invent a device to censor ads on TV? no, because those can't damage you or steal your info Commented Nov 14, 2024 at 8:50
  • 1
    @BryanKrause to answer your question, there is nothing specific to THIS test here, just a general reminder that almost no one will see those ads in the first place under the current conditions. There are very few users left who would want to whitelist the network out of "charity", and unpopular choices will only push those few towards just blocking everything as well, like everyone else is already doing. Commented Nov 14, 2024 at 8:53
  • 11
    @?PArcheon "Ask yourself, did anyone invent a device to censor ads on TV?" - yes, most DVRs. Let's not fool ourselves, while malicious ads and privacy are obviously a concern, most people block ads because they don't want to see ads. Commented Nov 14, 2024 at 12:11
64

I'd note this was previously mooted in 2019 and well, appears to be deeply unpopular.

I notice the question post here is very much centered around the process, and what the company intends to get out of it. I know there's generally vague promises of more resources for the community but what do the communities in question get out of it?

Also, as a initiative that affects a broader subset of communities, this is the first I've heard of it. Even if one might argue this is picking up an 'older' project, I feel like it would have been a nice thing to give a preview of this to moderators in general. One builds trust by communication, and the communication here has been lacking. There's a comment from a moderator on one of the sites affected in the main post indicating they weren't informed either.

I really do wish the company would do better with understanding that, there's a social contract between the company and community, and suddenly announcing something like this with no feedback, or seemingly a focus on the mechanics and the company's goals with little reference to the benefits the community might get feels... off. You're not selling this to management, an investor or even an advertiser. You're trying to sell it to a community that's jaded, and somewhat suspect of many of the initiatives the company takes, and the end results it seems to get.

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    meh, the goal here is simply to extract more cash from advertisers. How they source their ads has little effect on users and claims of increased click rate is nothing more than marketing to get companies to buy more ads (note how they gave no other info than a vague % increase.) It's certainly exploitive to serve ads in this way, but not exploitive of the community, rather, exploitive of the companies buying ads. SO presenting this as a benefit to the community is potentially exploitive, if there isn't clear accountability of the funds going to the improvement of the community.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Nov 8, 2024 at 4:31
  • or, at minimum, a clear indication that for a community to be worth hosting it needs to be bringing in X, and quarterly updates on how these communities are faring so people know what to expect.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Nov 8, 2024 at 4:35
  • 9
    It's ironic (and utterly sad) how the more the company mentions the importance of and respect for the community in blogs and other outward-facing communication, the less they are actually showing any of that respect or appreciation to the community itself.
    – Joachim
    Commented Nov 8, 2024 at 11:49
  • 13
    IMHO, that social contract went out the window when Prosus bought the company. It's worth about the same as ?? now
    – AMtwo
    Commented Nov 8, 2024 at 17:07
  • 2
    Oh it started being ignored waaaaay before that. Commented Nov 10, 2024 at 5:54
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Tight category controls have also resulted in no ads reported by community members via the “Report this ad” function.

This is not a good metric to use. Malicious ads can evade that reporting mechanism fairly easily. In many cases, you can't tell that an ad is malicious until after you've clicked on it. The ad can't be reported at that point because either 1) the malicious site hijacks your 'back' button preventing you from going back to the original page, or 2) you go back to the original page but when it re-loads you get an entirely different set of ads (so there's no way to report the malicious one). By the time you detect the ad is malicious, there's no longer any way to report it.

On top of that, very few people would actually use that button even when an ad is obviously malicious. Those buttons are always on top of or very close to the ad itself, and they're always tiny. If you don't have perfect aim you'll end up clicking that ad that you've already determined is dangerous. It's hard enough to do on a desktop, but on a touchscreen it's nigh impossible. After one or two mis-clicks, you quickly train yourself to not even bother trying anymore.

3
  • 3
    And I'm sure that many cases where people bother to report, are false positives where people are just angry with the company the ad belongs to, on something totally not related to the ad, e.g. they had a delay in shipment, had a fight with their customer support etc. I've seen at least one such a case here on MSE once, and surely there are much more.
    – user152859
    Commented Nov 16, 2024 at 16:23
  • 6
    Also, the buttons that are on top of the ad, its almost impossible to know if the report button is actually by the site, or a fake report button in the ad. Which if you are suspicious of an ad, means that security best practice would be to not press a button that has a good chance of being malicious. Commented Nov 29, 2024 at 13:12
  • I didn't report any ads because I don't see any ads. I removed SE from my whitelist after they made changes to their policies that made it apparent allowing any ads on this site was risky.
    – ColleenV
    Commented Jan 9 at 19:18
41

How much revenue do you believe you'll get per-user with ads?

Can I just pay to use the site somehow, in addition to volunteering my time, energy, and expertise? Or is there no way around the gradual deterioration of everything into advertising space?

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  • 2
    That's an interesting idea. I guess it would be possible to have an bidding not that bids for the ad space whenever you make a visit and then displays exactly nothing. That way one would pay a fair price (exactly the same any other advertiser would pay) and per use. Content contributors with reduced ads would need to buy less. Commented Nov 10, 2024 at 8:02
  • 9
    Why would you want to do that? I'm honestly curious. The idea of paying for a site for which one creates, improves, and manages content that is free and public seems to be the opposite of what the network (and any network like this) should want, and will likely quickly push away even more users, slowing down activity even more across the platform, and thereby attracting even less visitors.
    – Joachim
    Commented Nov 10, 2024 at 10:03
  • 3
    If you’re willing to pay to avoid ads, just use a free adblocker
    – Starship
    Commented Nov 10, 2024 at 12:50
  • 1
    There is already a pending feature request for that, since 2009.
    – user152859
    Commented Nov 10, 2024 at 14:15
  • 13
    @Joachim there are hosting costs that need to be covered at a minimum. I hate ads, so I'd rather pay to keep the site online than have them serve ads and inevitably complain about people blocking ads as though malvertising campaigns had never happened and people who block ads aren't acting out of self-interest. Note I am not suggesting a paywall, just an option to pay
    – Erin Anne
    Commented Nov 10, 2024 at 19:53
  • 2
    Thanks, @ErinAnne. Yes, it would be a nice solution, I just fear that a lot of users - who already feel underappreciated - will leave.
    – Joachim
    Commented Nov 11, 2024 at 8:29
  • 8
    yeah, they should probably fix the whole not appreciating the community thing, but I don't see that happening anytime soon either.
    – Erin Anne
    Commented Nov 11, 2024 at 8:53
  • 2
    @Joachim Since the purpose of advertising is to extract money from users, viewing ads functions as a means of paying. If we must pay somehow to keep the site online, then we may as well have payment options for people who hate ads. Commented Nov 21, 2024 at 18:14
  • Or the site pay us for posting answers? :)
    – rogerdpack
    Commented Nov 22, 2024 at 16:18
  • 1
    @rogerdpack so—I recognize that you're not serious. but. I do think it'd at least be interesting if SE Inc tried to be fair and used their available metrics (I'm sure I've seen some you've reached X people number on my profile) to reward people for their question / answer "utility" by either showing them fewer ads or, for some (likely earlier / Euler-prolific users) making the offer to pay them. Given operating costs I think even the "best" users could only be offered a pittance. But it'd be interesting. and probably have some bad incentives alongside it.
    – Erin Anne
    Commented Nov 22, 2024 at 19:59
  • 1
    @rogerdpack weirdly I'm reminded that jury pay in Texas (where I am) was incredibly bad (I think $8/day and recently bumped to something less ridiculous but still bad). It might pay for the cost of parking near the downtown Houston courthouse if you park wisely. Actually making the meager payments cost enough that they encouraged you to donate the pay instead, which they could do in lumps. When I served on a civil suit jury for two weeks we all got a substantial bonus from both parties involved (ca. hundreds of $) by a mechanism I don't really understand. I could see SE operate like this.
    – Erin Anne
    Commented Nov 22, 2024 at 20:15
  • 1
    like, I don't think it'll even happen, but the combination of "technically we could offer you a little for your answer if you use an approved payment provider like Paypal or Ko-fi; please plow it back into SE's costs instead" and "if you give us a link to an approved payment provider, we'll display it next to your Qs and As and maybe someone will reward you" (gross) at least seems logically consistent
    – Erin Anne
    Commented Nov 22, 2024 at 20:19
  • 7
    @ErinAnne I would not want people to get money for posting on SE. They could never pay enough to be relevant anyway but it would encourages countless people to make bad posts which look good/get lots of views to get money.
    – Starship
    Commented Nov 23, 2024 at 22:55
28

I've been watching carefully for ads on the sites I moderate since this change, disabling the rep privilege to see fewer ads.

I haven't really seen any that differ from ones that were running previous that I already recognized (of course I'm not perfect), until today. Here's the ad:

Scam "Print" ad in context

This looks like a scam to me, not exactly consistent with "strict controls and precautions". At a minimum, it's clearly an attempt to trick users to click on something that they think is going to help them print the page.

5
  • Does it at least advertise something that would help you print a page?
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jan 8 at 15:14
  • 8
    @KevinB Who knows? Wouldn't make it acceptable if it did. Commented Jan 8 at 15:15
  • Yeah, that one definitely seems scammy. Did you manage to report it?
    – V2Blast
    Commented Jan 14 at 3:04
  • 1
    @V2Blast Yes, I did. But, I'll say when I encounter these ads on other sites I don't normally bother to report them, doesn't seem something a user should be concerned with. I'm not too happy that I feel some of this responsibility has come to me now as a moderator. I'd otherwise prefer to defend advertising as a way to at least partly support these sites but then this crap... Commented Jan 14 at 4:44
  • @BryanKrause: Agreed that such ads should be caught/stopped before they're shown to a user, but I think it's still worth reporting if that does happen so that more people aren't misled by it.
    – V2Blast
    Commented Jan 14 at 17:57
23

We give you control over your personal information, presenting you with a choice of whether to accept cookies that will allow your personal information to be used for targeted advertising. As always, you can review and update your cookie preferences by scrolling to the bottom of any webpage and clicking “Cookie Settings.”

Will rejecting targeted advertising be included in the "Necessary cookies only"-button, or will it be separate, akin to the "Object to legitimate interests"-buttons that are in some of the sunsections of the cookie settings as shown below?

Screenshot of "Object to legitimate interests" button, which is hidden within a layer of the settings

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  • 2
    As far as I understand, "Necessary cookies only" normally activates only technically necessary or unavoidable data collection, such as login cookies or request headers. Commented Nov 15, 2024 at 1:20
  • 3
    @Greengrün绿色vertзеленый that's how it SHOULD work, but I think it's an extremely valid point to question, given .... Well... Given some sketchy decisions the company has made in recent history
    – AMtwo
    Commented Nov 17, 2024 at 22:11
  • 5
    If "necessary cookies only" doesn't turn off unnecessary data collection, then it would be flat out illegal in the EU. The GPDR requires to have an easy option to disable all unnecessary cookies. Commented Nov 18, 2024 at 2:30
  • 4
    @Greengrün绿色vertзеленый But it does already happen with "Legitimate interests", which have to be objected to independent of clicking "necessary cookies only" (often with several buttons in different places, even SE has 2 of them).
    – B-Tech
    Commented Nov 21, 2024 at 14:08
  • IIRC, GDPR explicitly forbids targeted advertising from being considered "necessary", no matter how your site is designed.
    – bta
    Commented Dec 6, 2024 at 19:54
10

As a moderator on one of the phase 2 sites (pets) - I noticed there's no mention of what categories of advertisements are allowed for sites on this phase. Considering its not a tech, or finance sites, would there be more directly relevant categories for more niche/non tech sites?

2
  • I'd believe it's the same as phase 1, considering that Anime.SE is a recreation site, not a tech/finance site. Commented Nov 28, 2024 at 10:11
  • Well yes but I feel like that is another example of a site that is in the same circumstances as us Commented Nov 28, 2024 at 10:16
9

Bring it on! If it makes the CEO happy and could lead to the hiring of more CM's, I don't mind the ads.

/me already using anti-ad technology

8

Wait, what?

Just to give a "userstory" that I don't expect is particularly uncommon: I saw this and was really surprised that network sites don't already see ads--why is the company leaving money on the table?! I guess that establishes 3 things:

  • Many users are using adblock on all devices, and functionally this will change nothing for them.
  • StackExchange (company) could be doing a better job communicating about its ad policy, if it believes that it's significantly more fair/less invasive than other companies. (A "please turn off your adblock" blocker banner would either make me block the popup or stop using the site, though.)
  • Likely, the people who will be most affected by this change are not the people expressing opinions here, and may not be registered users at all.
1
  • 8
    Historically, well, most of the smaller sites literally been seen as too small to matter. There's been a few initiatives to try to directly make money on the smaller sites, but quite often they just ended up forgotten for some reason Commented Nov 26, 2024 at 8:13
6

Could this be made opt-in, or at least give communities the option to opt-out? I notice that, currently, the per-site meta announcements for Anime & Manga, English Language & Usage, Literature, Astronomy, Biology, Chemistry, Geographic Information Systems, Physics, Space Exploration, Chess, Constructed Languages, Puzzling, Role-Playing Games, Science Fiction & Fantasy, Worldbuilding, and Bicycles are downvoted.

I truly do think that some communities would opt-in, or not opt-out. Out of the 50 communities mentioned in this post, yes 16 of their per-site meta announcements are negatively scored, but 34 aren't. 29 of them have a score of 0, including 2 with an upvote, 2 with 2 upvotes. 8 of them have score above 0, and 2 of them have a score of 2. Of the 16 "First Phase" sites, 9 announcements are negatively scored, although they all have an upvote, 5 have at least 2 upvotes, and 2 even have 3 upvotes! Of the 34 "Second Phase" sites announcements, only 7 are downvoted, and of those 2 have an upvote. While obviously not every community would opt-in/not opt-out, I think some definitely would choose to keep the advertising test.

I understand this might be an unrealistic request, but I really do think this would be much better if it was opt-in/opt-out.

6
  • 25
    making ad space that's being sold opt-in would devalue the adspace and reduce profits. This is along the same lines as "can we move the ads to the footer instead? and then place a div over them so we can't see them?"
    – Kevin B
    Commented Nov 7, 2024 at 22:45
  • @KevinB I meant more have the communities opt in not each user.
    – Starship
    Commented Nov 7, 2024 at 23:38
  • 3
    History is cyclic and this isn't doing too bad in comparison. I feel like its less about advertising on its own than (from reading the comments) SO inc being exploitative, and the actual benefits for the communities involved being unclear. Commented Nov 8, 2024 at 1:49
  • 8
    "…this might be an unrealistic request…" I disagree, it is a unrealistic, pie-in-the-sky, request. I can't imagine any community not wanting to opt out, which would mean Stack Exchange is back at square one. Commented Nov 10, 2024 at 8:58
  • @Mari-LouAСлаваУкра?н? Plenty of people upvoted this announcement and some even the per site meta ones. Some people are okay with it
    – Starship
    Commented Nov 10, 2024 at 12:49
  • Some people being OK with it when the majority isn't suggests minority rule. Of course, there's neither majorities nor minorities here. SO.Inc. owns the service and can do what they want... but the majority that they depend on to make their service worthwhile hates this.
    – JBH
    Commented Nov 29, 2024 at 19:47
4

Worldbuilding Says NO


We don't want your ads. Remove them from our community and get rid of them from StackExchange.

That is all.

4

If you're going to add ads, at least put the ads to the side so it's not so distracting. Imagine you are scrolling through an answer and a colorful ad pops up. How annoying is that?

1
  • The best solution IMO would be something like on daringfireball.net: a small, tex-only post with a link with reaaally curated sponsors. Not the shitshow that is the standard for web ads.
    – Luciano
    Commented Jan 23 at 10:23
3

I don't know if other communities landed in the same situation as Arqade, but I'll quote a portion of the answer on our Meta post.

Given that it has been Jan 13 for several hours already (by UTC time), you've given Arqade's community what, 10 minutes heads up on this experiment?

At the time of writing this answer, Arqade was not listed on the Phase 3 list (and wouldn’t be for multiple hours*), and other than a passing discussion about potentially supporting ads back in July last year with the mods, no info has really been shared with us.

You read that right - SE included us without (a) meaningfully notifying our mods about it and (b) did so before phase 3 had even been edited into the post I'm creating an answer for.

*Yes, that part was edited in later.

-1

It seems problematic to me to add a large number of phase 2 sites to the list only in an edit to the question, without an announcement advertised separately in the "Featured on Meta" sidebar. This phase 2 will go unnoticed by many users, in this way. At the very least, I suggest adding "updated with phase 2" to the title of this question (I'll do it myself!).

(Of course, I am assuming that it wasn't an intentional decision by SE to try and sneak in more advertisements without pushback. Am I right?)

3
  • 4
    FWIW, they have also posted the announcement on each child meta. Commented Nov 28, 2024 at 10:13
  • 1
    "Of course, I am assuming that it wasn't an intentional decision by SE to try and sneak in more advertisements without pushback. Am I right?" - You assume this why?
    – Starship
    Commented Dec 2, 2024 at 2:12
  • 2
    @Starship There are precedents, but I don't want to assume malice here. Commented Dec 2, 2024 at 9:03
-1

I see you have now added a phase 2 and a phase 3...is this just going to keep going? Is the end goal here for these ads to roll out to all sites?

1
  • 4
    I mean... Probably?
    – Spevacus Mod
    Commented Feb 9 at 19:24
-6

Why not do this on Meta Stack Exchange itself? It seems like this is where the announcements about limited advertising tests are being posted, so IMHO it would be a good idea to at least test it here.

5
  • 2
    Because they've already tested it on Mathematics, and the audience here is pretty limited. Commented Nov 12, 2024 at 9:57
  • 9
    How would one make targetted ads for meta? SE merch?
    – Starship
    Commented Nov 12, 2024 at 11:49
  • Dogfooding might be funny. Commented Nov 21, 2024 at 18:15
  • @LyndonGingerich Personally I don't think it would necessarily be funny per se, but maybe it would work.
    – CrSb0001
    Commented Nov 22, 2024 at 15:22
  • 1
    @RobertLongson The audience here is pretty limited? Worldbuilding is in phase 2 and its audience is an itty-bitty fraction of the audience here. Any generic ad suitable for distribution to all of the participating stacks would be entirely suitable here.
    – JBH
    Commented Nov 29, 2024 at 19:54
-7

I will just proceed and delete my profile from any site where ads are scheduled to be displayed. SE already profits, in fairly shady ways, from the time and work volunteered by its users, adding ads on top of that is not something I will support.

13
  • 7
    Ads have been on the platform for a long time. The only thing new here are the types of ads we're getting.
    – Spevacus Mod
    Commented Dec 4, 2024 at 13:41
  • @Spevacus You are correct and I worded that very poorly. Still, the point is that I object to the change.
    – user1466496
    Commented Dec 4, 2024 at 13:53
  • 8
    What are the fairly shady ways that SE already profits? If not those shady ways and not ads, how do you want SE to pay their bills? Commented Dec 4, 2024 at 17:10
  • 5
    Personally, as someone deeply invested in the network - between SE's generally enlightened philosophy towards adblockers and track record, its less the presence of ads than their content, and potential trackers that's a potential issue. I'd give SE a lot more slack over this if they seemed more proactive about certain issues of community health, and proving they're trust worthy. Ads and profit are less a problem than how the relationship between the company and community is. Commented Dec 5, 2024 at 1:06
  • @BryanKrause You seem to believe I am open to debate or something. I am not. I was just making my discontent clear. I do not care about whether or not SE pays their bills, the responsibility to do so is on them, not on the users who provide the volunteer labor they profit from.
    – user1466496
    Commented Dec 5, 2024 at 9:49
  • 2
    @Vilarinof I was trying to understand how you see the situation, to decide whether you had a valid point or not. It seems not. Commented Dec 5, 2024 at 13:08
  • 2
    @BryanKrause their point is they don't like this change. One doesn't need to know how to make a given dish to say that they don't like it. Claiming otherwise would be an invalid dismissal of the complaint.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Dec 5, 2024 at 13:20
  • 2
    @VLAZ If their position is that no way the company makes revenue is acceptable to them, their complaint is meaningless. Something has to pay the bills, money isn't magic. Commented Dec 5, 2024 at 13:23
  • @BryanKrause OK, then please also go around restaurants and tell unhappy customers that they should cook themselves.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Dec 5, 2024 at 13:25
  • 2
    @VLAZ Huh? It's more like it's valid to complain that your sandwich should have been made a different way or perhaps is overpriced, but if you write a comment card saying sandwiches should be free to everyone that one can just go right in the bin. Commented Dec 5, 2024 at 13:50
  • @BryanKrause Yes - you seem to be very interested in validating complaints. So, I'm giving you more opportunities to do so. There are a lot more restaurants than SE.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Dec 5, 2024 at 13:57
  • 1
    @Vilarinof You won't say what "shady" ways you find unacceptable, you won't say what you find acceptable. Not very productive. Commented Dec 5, 2024 at 14:06
  • 3
    @BryanKrause OP has already stated that they have no interest in being "productive", they're merely here to do the "you just lost a customer" thing (and indeed they now appear to have gone through with their promise of deleting all their network profiles).
    – F1Krazy
    Commented Dec 5, 2024 at 14:48
-12

I think that SE already gets more than enough money from giant corporations that want to use the SE software for their private purposes - why is advertising needed?

6
  • 3
    The purpose of SE (and every other company, to be fair) is to make as much money as possible. Advertising is "needed" because it results in more money.
    – Starship
    Commented Nov 12, 2024 at 14:20
  • 11
    You mean Teams, and I'm pretty sure it's not going as well as they planned, to say the least, otherwise we would have been in a much better place.
    – user152859
    Commented Nov 12, 2024 at 15:15
  • 13
    Even under a completely altruistic model, more money is more funds that can be spent to build the platform– better, more quickly, more extensively, etc. There isn't really such a think as "more than enough money" in a corporate context; more money will always (to a point) mean more freedom to do more stuff.
    – zcoop98
    Commented Nov 12, 2024 at 16:14
  • 1
    It might be less painful and more effective than other means of making money. Commented Nov 21, 2024 at 18:17
  • What work? You volunteer your service of your own accord. If you want to be paid, get a contract that says so, or else accept that you're donating your time to the world at large and someone somewhere is going to skim off the top of that. @elemtilas
    – Nij
    Commented Nov 27, 2024 at 11:00
  • Yeah, we generate the content. For free. And SE makes it available to the world. For free. If you want the money for yourself, find a better way for SE to earn it, because they're already profiting and you haven't demanded a thing from that money yet.
    – Nij
    Commented Nov 27, 2024 at 18:13
-12

As a user and contributor, I don't care about how you choose to sell ads. I don't even care about the ads - display porn site ads if you think you can make money from it because, why not!?

All I care about is if the ad comes with any sort of anti-privacy "tracking". Any kind of tracking to "serve me better ads" or "serve me personalised ads" will mean StackExchange will always be in my ad blocker blacklist.

7
  • 7
    "display porn site ads if you think you can make money from it because, why not!?" - You can't be serious. Think that through for a sec. I for one would leave if they intentionally did that.
    – Starship
    Commented Dec 1, 2024 at 2:20
  • 9
    Historically - NSFW ads have been one of the points of friction/loss of trust with the company. We've had more drama about that than tracking. Commented Dec 1, 2024 at 3:48
  • @Starship I was being sarcastic.
    – sfxedit
    Commented Dec 2, 2024 at 2:11
  • Bad taste sarcasm.
    – user152859
    Commented Dec 2, 2024 at 8:46
  • @ShadowWizard Worse than the 142 downvotes this Q has? ;)
    – sfxedit
    Commented Dec 2, 2024 at 11:08
  • 3
    Well, think the problem is, SE actually displayed NSFW ads more than once, so it's a touchy subject.
    – user152859
    Commented Dec 2, 2024 at 11:32
  • 1
    @ShadowWizard Ah, I get it now. Thanks for that insight into SE history.
    – sfxedit
    Commented Dec 3, 2024 at 9:43

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